Justin Hogg On Why You Shouldn’t Settle As A Social Entrepreneur Or Nonprofit

Over his career, Justin Hogg has worked as an accountant in a number of industries which has included overseeing teams responsible for billion-dollar business ventures through to working with charities to further their goals. Having also graduated top of the class for his Commerce degree at the University of Queensland, Justin is an expert in the numbers side of business.

But his passion, and the driving force in his career is people. Through multiple leadership positions and business experience, Justin has gained a unique ability to communicate and relate with people of all walks of life.

That passion for people has led him to ask how accounting could be better. And in asking this question discovered that being an Accountant can no longer be just focused on the numbers. It is about the people.

Justin is the Founding Director of Right Source, a Member of CPA Australia and a Fellow of the Governance Institute of Australia.

Justin delves into finance side of social enterprise, providing key tips for entrepreneurs to help them succeed, whilst reflecting on other factors that can inhibit creating strong impact.

Highlights from the interview (listen to the podcast for full details)

[Tom Allen] - Could you please share a bit about your background and what led to your work in the social enterprise and non profit sector?

[Justin Hogg] - I'm an accountant, I've always worked within businesses and had some good experiences and challenges, within business and business life. I got to a point in my career where I wanted to give back. I'd never been involved in not-for-profit or social enterprise for a fair chunk of my career. One of the ways I discovered I could have a potential of giving back was taking a pro bono company secretary role at a charity that helps the homeless called 3rd Space. This was my first toe in the water.

What I discovered in doing that was the amazing people that work there; that every day they showed up, they gave a hundred percent effort just so they could make a difference. Being able to help that organisation and potentially make a difference in one person's life was an amazingly special thing. I just fell in love with that aspect of being able to, so it's giving back but actually making a difference. The more I got involved in other not-for-profits and then also social enterprise, I just found that everywhere you went there were these amazing people just trying to make a difference in whatever way they could. For me, I'm hooked. I love it. I want to be able to ensure that these people can keep making a difference. I think that's the best way I can help.

As a Founding Director at Right Source, what are some of your key observations from working with a broad range of clients that have spanned quite a number of different industries?

Probably one of the biggest things is that people don't expect enough of their accountant.

That doing this enterprise, whether it be not-for-profit or a social enterprise, for-profit, whatever, it's they don't expect enough. They feel that financial literacy is something they'll never gain because there's no one there to really help them. My advice to people is that there are definitely those out there that are able to come along on the journey with you and help you understand the numbers side of things.

It's really important for someone running a business to understand that in looking for meaning in the financial side of the business, it's your story, it's your business. These numbers need to mean something to you.

It's finding that person who's able to present that information because there's always more than one way to do things. How to present that information to you in a way that makes sense to you and helps you understand your story as a business, and that'll give you transparency and allow you to be much more effective in running that business.

I imagine you've seen a number of people doing things really well and also the opposite, right? In the financial sense, where do you see social entrepreneurs and nonprofits typically getting caught up? What lessons could you share to help prevent others making some of those same mistakes?

One of the strengths of social enterprise is also its weakness in that there's often boundless enthusiasm. The fact that you want to change the world and make a difference, means people want to do everything they can.

Quite often if they don't have, or they lose sight of their financial capability of what they are able to do, they'll overextend. They'll try and do too much.

Unfortunately, what this will mean is that they'll run out of money or they'll run out the runway or however you want to describe it, but things will come to an end. It's really about, not saying, ‘don't do things’, but, ‘don't do them yet or understand what your key focus is and drive that, get that working and grow in a measured way so that you're able to continue doing what you're doing.’ Because you'll always find more people wanting to help, but if you're not around, you'll never be able to find those people. That's the thing that I try and coach those in the social enterprise space on, is that yes, it's great and we will solve everything, but we need to plan it out and make sure that we can get to the end.

Some great advice there. I'm keen to hear what you'd then be saying to those who are just starting out. Do you have any particular advice for them?

One of the big ones is don't settle.

This might sound a bit odd because most people starting out in a social enterprise are doing it because they're not settling. Because they've seen an issue in society that they think, ‘well this could be better or this could be fixed.’ Rather than waiting for someone to do it, they've got up and are having a crack. These same people I see and I talk to about their accountant or their lawyer or whoever it is that they're associated with in their business and they're like, ‘Yeah, they didn't really get what I'm doing, they're not that good.’ I'm like, ‘Why are you settling? Why aren't you looking for someone that supports, not necessarily supports what you're doing, but believes in you or is able to at least communicate effectively with you and add value to your business? I mean, that's, you should be looking for.’

I've seen those who succeed, one of the biggest factors of success is the people you put around you. Do that consciously, do that on purpose. If you have in your network, whether it be an advisor or someone who's working for you, make sure that that person is there to help and is something that they add value. If they don't, don't settle, find someone else.

What's important is ... It's your success is important. Value that.

Knowing that you've worked with a number of different nonprofits and social enterprises, are there any particular causes that you feel particularly passionate about? Which organisations are working in that area that you would really like to get behind or just really like what they're doing?

Yeah, Tom, it's interesting.

As I've got more exposure to different organisations and people trying to tackle different and very specific problems, one thing that's really started to ring true for me is the big social issue out there that's people looking to tackle is the one of loneliness.

Some people will call it an epidemic, but effectively there's a lot more lonely people now than there used to be. This shows up in all different areas. Obviously there's suicide prevention, that sort of area. You've got the homeless, you've got people going to jail and going to prison, how they re-associate back into society. You've even got bullying and victimisation in the workplace. It can be quite a lonely experience if you're subject to that type of stuff. There's a lot of organisations out there that might be dealing with a specific issue and ultimately what they're doing is dealing with the issue of loneliness.

One organisation that I do work for called Common Ground Queensland, they do supportive living, which basically is helping those who have formerly been homeless or are at risk of being homeless. Effectively giving them a place to live but at the same time as giving them that accommodation, there are support services that are on premise and available to that individual. If they have a problem with mental illness, or substance abuse, or they just need someone to help reintegrate them into society, that service is provided around them and around their home. That has a massive impact in allowing that person to become whole again and become a part of society. That is a real focus on helping you know you're not alone. That is such a strong statement that has a really big impact to our society.

It absolutely does. I find it really interesting that you bring up loneliness. Having worked with a number of social entrepreneurs, that is a consistent piece of feedback that we get in running our accelerator programs.

We take the loneliness out of entrepreneurship and the absolute slog that it can be.

To feel that support when you're just trying to get something up and running. I think there's so much overlap there and it really is a big issue for many of our social entrepreneurs. Nevermind the burnout issue, and founder health…

Yeah.

I think there are many areas for us to be really taking care of our own mental health as people in business, and supporting one another.

I think it's really important as well; you're right. I've experienced it too, starting up our businesses, it can be extremely lonely. I think people need to recognise that okay, it's okay to feel lonely, but there are things you can do like the accelerator programs is a perfect case.

Create that network of people that allows you to have a shared experience and it makes it a massive impact to your mental health.

Absolutely. To finish off then, Justin, is there any books or resources that you'd really highly recommend to our audience?

One book that I've come across is a bit different. It's sort of self-help, but it's more like a manual on how to set up a company. It's called Scaling Up by Verne Harnish. It is a bit commercially focused, but the principles that it's got in it talks about people, strategy, execution and cash. They're the four key areas it talks about, but the lessons in there are equally applicable to a small business or a large business. Even though it is called scaling up and it really helps you understand the mechanics of how business should run. That's quite unusual in terms of books. I find that quite useful.

I suppose the other thing is, for me, the greatest resource I find, is actually the network of people I have around me.

I am relatively new to having my own business, I've been into it for a few years.

What I found in starting up a business was that by developing those people around you that don't necessarily have to be your client or you don't have to be paying them, but having a network of people that you can touch base with, ask a question. You might have an issue that you're dealing with. Being able to give someone a call and say, "Hey, look, I've got this issue. What should I do?" It might be they have a service they can provide. It might be they can just give you a five minute, "Look, do this and you're all right."