Ed Ross & Daniel Allen On Funky Work Wear Designed To Start Mental Health Conversations

Ed and Dan are qualified carpenters, Co Founders of TradeMutt and founding directors of the This Is A Conversation Starter Foundation Ltd.

Ed and Dan met on a building site back in 2014 when they started working for a new builder on the same day. Dan was two years out of his Carpentry trade and Ed was just starting out, fresh off a stint from working on a cattle station in the Northern Territory. Dan was born and raised in the inner west suburbs of Sydney, and Ed is an authentic country lad hailing from Longreach Queensland.

TradeMutt came about in the confusing but reflective period following the suicide of a friend in 2016. Trademutt are an Australian Workwear brand that aims to make tradies and workers of all kinds look and feel great at work, and in doing so, reduce the rate of suicide in Australia. Their loud and vibrant shirts act as a catalyst to starting the conversation around mental health, a topic that has been hard to approach in the past for blokes, mostly due to the attached stigmas and perceived weakness.

Ed and Dan discuss how eye-catching workwear can start conversations about mental health in the workplace and key lessons learnt though their social enterprise journey.

Highlights from the interview (listen to the podcast for full details)

[Tom Allen] - To start off Dan, can you tell us a little bit more about your background and what led to your interest and passion in social enterprise?

[Daniel Allen] - Basically the background for myself and Ed is we are two carpenters by trade with a combined 15 years’ experience between us. The majority of this experience is for me, with 11 spent as a carpenter, and Ed's, still a bit of a spring chicken in the space. The two of us met on the building site and we formed a fairly strong bond. We both started working for the same builder on the same day together and being two newbies, we were lumped together. As it turns out, we've been lumped together ever since. We were a couple of blokes on the building site, talking a fair bit of nonsense every day; different things like what to do with our lives, businesses we would love to start, or what we would do if we won the lottery! We always thought to ourselves, “why isn't there anything else to wear to work? Why hasn't anyone ever changed how it is?” Maybe it can't be done. That was the seed of this idea for us. Getting to the workwear space, being two tradies, obviously we knew nothing about work wear. We could build houses fairly proficiently, but we'd have no idea around navigating a sewing machine. It was probably in December 2015 when I got the tragically unexpected phone call on a Sunday morning, and I received the news that I lost one of my best mates to suicide. That was my first experience with suicide and it certainly rocked both mine and Ed's worlds. It was a strange experience for us both. I'd obviously lost one of my best mates and was processing those emotions at the time, and Ed was my apprentice. I was supposed to be his mentor, and Ed was my number one support network when I'd rock up to work. In the weeks following that, when I just burst into tears, Ed would have to manage that. He experienced that as a support network to me, which is obviously quite a confronting thing for him to have to go through.

That was our introduction to the mental health space.We started looking into the space after that thinking, “why is it so stale? Why is it so hard to start these conversations?”

It doesn't seem like the conversation any tradie would know their way around or want to start, because it seems big and scary. I thought it'd be a great idea to try and chill it out a bit, make it little bit more light-hearted, so we started exploring this work wear space. We met some people along the way, one of whom was Peter Ball who was running the Impact Academy at the time. He introduced us to this idea of social impact and using profit for purpose. It wasn't really a style of business we were familiar with or had ever heard of at the time, and given what we had both been through with experiencing that suicide of my mate, we started gelling our two ideas together. We wanted to create funky work wear while feeling like we could do something in the mental health space, and I guess that was it. That was the start of it. We started to push these two ideas together and it became Trademutt, a social impact workwear company.

Ed, tell us a bit more about Trademutt, how this organisation exists, and what is its purpose and core projects?

[Ed Ross] - Trademutt is a work wear fashion brand. The fashion bit has been tapped into over the recent years, because that's what people keep telling us. We just keep coming up with ranges of different colourful designs and work compliant, work wear to help start conversations more regularly on job sites and allow people to show vulnerability, which has been really important. The big things we have been trying to do is implement as much social impact as we can through our supply chain. Some of the programs we have worked with is Work Restart, out of Borallon in Ipswich. We are just up cycling products that have been left over at the end of collections; odd sizings or garments that have been damaged through the manufacturing process. This allows us to create them into other products so we can then sell them rather than turning them into rags or landfill. We are also working with SendAble, a third-party logistics partner. They're also a full impact business. We have been able to provide over 26,000 hours of disability employment through working with them. They pick and pack in a warehouse and dispatch our products every day, which is amazing. Also, we are partnered with TIACS, which is the free text and call service to mental health counsellors operating from Monday to Friday 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM. Dan and I also co-founded TIACS a little over two years ago, and it has provided over 10,500 trades people and their families with access to free counselling, and a value of just under 2 million dollars. It's important for us to be able to do that. It would've been easy for us to just launch Trademutt, start conversations and tick the box by donating money to another existing charity and get stuff made overseas really cheaply and have a really big profit margin.

But, it's more about how we can do more good through our supply chain and having integrity. Transparency is obviously one of our key values. Making sure that we are doing as much as we can to make a social change is important to our core.

Dan, if you were to start your whole business journey again, what would you change and where do you see the biggest opportunities emerging in the ecosystem of support that exists to improve the experience of entrepreneurs?

[Daniel Allen] - One opportunity that would've really benefited us when getting into this space was due to us being incredibly protective of our brand. It is only natural, right? But, really understanding the ecosystem of work and commercialising the sales of work wear through different verticals and revenue streams would have been invaluable. Also, understanding the true commercial opportunities and consumer purchasing behaviours earlier on so we could have moved quicker to underpin the revenue streams in the business would've been a really good thing for us to do.

Being protective of brands is obviously only natural, but obviously commercialising what you're doing is the key thing. You can't make an impact unless you're really making money. That's obviously key to being able to change any ecosystem.

I think to be able to support entrepreneurs in the space would need something like learning to understand the numbers a lot earlier on in the piece and understanding the true impact, outcomes, and meanings of all the numbers flowing through the business. It's a really hard thing to wrap your head around if you're not that way inclined. Obviously, you can have a whole lot of people telling you a whole lot of different things, but the commercial viability of any business is the key to being able to create all the opportunities and impact you need and want to create. I think without that knowledge, you really can't do anything. You can have a great idea, your heart can be in the right place, but without having that buttoned up, you really can't do anything. Support in that space would be great.

Ed, what advice would you give other founders looking to scale their purpose led enterprise?

[Ed Ross] - Be smart about it and don't take big audacious risks. I think that's one thing we have learned along the way. Also, don’t buy under the hype. We've been really fortunate, it's like Dan always says, your biggest strengths are also your biggest weaknesses. For us, our biggest strength is our community, and they just absolutely adore us and send us thousands of different ideas, products and stuff they want and things that they want done.

We have been caught up in trying to please everyone and learning to say no has been an important thing alongside being really strict on staying in our lane. When the going's good and everyone is telling you you are doing great, you feel invincible. You start thinking “we will just do anything, this can't fail.” More often than not, it does miss, and when you've made a fair financial contribution, it's quite a big hole you need to dig yourself back out of, I think a big thing is scaling, but scaling smart. We are living in a society at the moment where people want next day wins and want to be at the top of the mountain within a couple of weeks. It’s a great thing to take your time, and I think you've just got to be, like Dan always says in it for the journey and not trying to cut corners and slog away. Make smart decisions and don't stick your neck out too far.

Is there any practical advice either of you have to give other founders to stay on top of their mental health?

[Daniel Allen] - I think this is something we are both continually working on for sure. It's something you only learn along the way through experience, so yes. Any advice we can get to people to be able to prevent that happening is great, but I'm also not necessarily the best person to be asking about burnout, because we have both been close to it. But I'm learning and actively implementing a few things.

I'm really conscious now and probably forever to not let my identity be attached to being, “Dan from Trademutt or TIACS.” I think it's really important because I don't think I'll be in these businesses forever. I know I won't be in this forever and it's really important to me to know who I am without that. At the point in time when this is not what I do anymore, I will be okay and able to stand on two feet and look for the next challenge. Definitely understanding your identity and what your identity is without the impact enterprise you're running is important. A couple of other key things for me are to really understand what nourishes me. Things that nourish me outside business are the sports and hobbies I'm involved in; they are super important to me. I understand the impact on my own mental health when those activities are removed from my week. I really prioritize and make sure I can engage in those activities because it really refreshes my mind. Support networks obviously are key, we have been a huge support network to each other. But, we've also got our own support networks who we can talk openly and frankly with. Mates, other business advisors and mentors are absolutely key.

The fourth tip is practice what you preach. Ed and I are both on our own mental health plans and we've both got our own psychologists we see who are helping us deal with personal and stress related Problems.

We employ about a team of 10 or 11 counselors over at TIACS, but we can't use them ourselves because they work for us.

[Ed Ross] - I think a big tip is not just absorbing your entire being into what you're doing. Stopping and smelling the roses a bit, and going along in a way where the journey is. It's not always going to be enjoyable, but you're actually enjoying it to a degree. You are taking it at your own pace and looking after your own wellbeing. It's also just so imperative to work out physically and get good sleep. You need to be strict on your notifications. I have deleted Facebook and Instagram, and that sort of stuff allows you to buy more time back and invest more time into important things like my mates, my wife and family. The idea of you’ve got to break your back, do massive weeks and that idea of the grind are being seen past by people now; they know it is unsustainable. Dan and I were definitely victims of that. We worked hard to get this business up and off the ground, but you can't do that for five or ten years. You know you can do it for 12 months or 2 years, but then if you don't look after yourself from that point, you can burn out and lose sight of your purpose. Then, being so low yourself can defeat the reason you started it. I think it's so important to be looking after yourself and having something outside of work.

What inspiring projects or initiatives have you both come across recently that are creating some positive social change?

[Daniel Allen] - I actually saw this question and thought, “wow, where's my head at here, because I'm so deep in Trademutt that it's hard to absorb a whole lot of things going on outside of our little world.” That probably speaks volumes to the things we've just been talking about, but to give you an honest answer, I'm extremely proud of some of the projects we've supported, particularly the Work Restart program. The initiatives skilling people with an experience of incarceration with skills that can help prevent them from re-offending and ending up inside prison again are very close to me. Work Restart has been cancelled at the Borallan prison, which is sad to hear is the case, but I've been really proud of the work we've been able to do there. We have been able to go inside the prison and have some really great conversations with people who have been locked up for 20-30 years. To hear their stories and to relate to these people and understand that anyone could end up in those situations if you were faced with the circumstances that these people were is enlightening. I think a lot needs to be done in that space, so I've been really proud of our involvement with Work Restart.

What other books, podcasts, blogs, resources would you be recommend recommending to our listen?

[Ed Ross] - It's two books for me. Good to Great I'm sure has been pushed on this podcast before. It’s an amazing book and something that we implemented at the end of last year. There are so many key business insights in there from some major people in the industry that have stuck with me and our senior leadership team at Trademutt. But the most recent one Dan and I have read is Profit First, and it's something we are implementing into our business literally at the moment. I think dumbing down and simplifying the numbers is something that's so important, especially for people like Dan and I, who are not numbers people. It's something that's very foreign to us. Looking at big spreadsheets and different acronyms, line items are very complex. Profit First is a really simplistic and provides an easy way to implement and structure your finances and take control of the profitability of your organisation. You’ll be able to see what's actually flying at the bottom so you can make more social change.

[Daniel Allen] - I've recently been enjoying pm the podcast front Steven Bartlett’s Diary of a CEO. It has some really fantastic episodes on there. A particular episode, 146 with Tom Bilyeu imparted some awesome reliable advice about relationships. This is both personal relationships and relationships in the workplace as well as effective communication. I think that's obviously something that underpins what we're about in terms of our cause. But actually implementing those practices within our workplace and lives is something that adds a lot. Otherwise, everyone should read The Happiest Refugee by Anh Do.