Phil Smith & Luke Wright On Fusing Men's Sheds And Social Enterprise To Empower Remote Indigenous Communities

Phil Smith and Luke Wright are the Co-founders of Good Projects Australia. They met over 20 years ago when starting out in the environmental movement. While both their careers have taken different twists and turns, they’ve remained friends and collaborators ever since.

Among other things, Phil was the founding CEO of the Gurindji Aboriginal Corporation, a highly successful Aboriginal-owned charity. Under his transformational 10-year leadership, he established an impressive number of social enterprises, capital works projects, and community development programs.

Luke has enjoyed a career focused on the nonprofit sector, social and commercial enterprise, and media and journalism. In the social enterprise space, Luke is the Co-Founder and former CEO of Good Cycles, one of Australia’s most highly regarded social enterprises.

Recently, Phil and Luke have begun exploring a new venture called Deadly Sheds, an employment-based social enterprise that aims to help improve remote community housing while empowering men to lead the way.

Phil and Luke discuss empowering indigenous men in remote Australia through community led social enterprises and why we should listen and save a seat at the table for underrepresented voices in policy and decision making.

Highlights from the interview (listen to the podcast for full details)

[Tom Allen] - To start off, can you both please share a bit more about your backgrounds and what led to your passion for social enterprise?

[Luke Wright] - I've done quite a variety of things over the years. Phil and I met 20 years ago while working for the Wilderness Society. We were out in the streets campaigning to stop the logging of old growth forests. We were the original charity muggers, we were hassling people on the streets, so sorry about that everyone!

After that we branched out into running our own direct sales agency together. We managed about 20 staff helping consumers to switch over to green energy, and that was going well until an ABC investigation found that the company we had the contract with was allegedly dodgy. That was a real shame, because we had to pack up quite quickly and leave.

My proper introduction to social enterprise was in about 2006-2007, which was a time when the term social enterprise wasn't well known. I'd moved to Bolivia in South America, and I attempted to set up a non-profit business which would take trash from the streets of La Paz and create recycled products.

We had local indigenous people turn this waste into products for sale, bags, wallets and the like, but ultimately that venture failed after trying for 18 months to get it off the ground. It was a huge lesson in how not to run a social enterprise to be honest. I made every mistake possible, but I learned a lot.

After that experience, I fell into journalism and communications work. I ended up spending about five years working as a travel reporter and magazine editor.

I was traveling around the world and writing about it for magazines, and in some ways, it was the perfect job. I was getting paid to travel to places like the Galapagos Islands and Greenland, but I kept getting called back to doing more meaningful work.

I gave up the business class flights and fancy hotels so I could launch a social enterprise in Melbourne. It was all about bicycles, and I started it partly to offset my carbon emissions guilt but also to support young people with mental health issues and barriers to employment.

A decade later, Good Cycles is doing well, and I’m super proud to see that continuing to grow with new people giving it their time and energy.

Phil and I reconnected professionally back in 2016. I started to support him in his role at the Gurindji Aboriginal Corporation, and I eventually took over running the Freedom Day Festival out there in the remote heart of the Northern Territory.

This year we launched our own consultancy based on the back of that work, and it's called Good Projects Australia. Deadly Sheds is one of our major projects, and I’ve learned so much from my experiences. Some of my previous ventures are a masterclass in what not to do to be honest.

[Phil Smith] - I have also had failures aplenty, and I am a little bit jealous of Luke having gotten to travel the world! I've been pondering where my passion for social enterprise was born, and where it all sprouted from is a little bit odd because it was in a milk truck.

I was working in the wee hours of the morning one day with my family business as a milkman in the late 90s. I guess I was just pondering my miserable existence, and in those wee hours of the morning you have a lot of time to think and ponder about the world's issues and how you might be able to help.

The fact was that I had no skills or experience to help me get into working in impact, so I guess like many listeners, the first thing that came to mind was Greenpeace. I had this massive idea at 3am to give Greenpeace a call, which I did. They sent me a bunch of Save the Whale brochures, so I proceeded to pepper my milk customers with them.

From 3am to 6am for about six months or so, customers would receive this stack of milk, cream and cheese with a whale's tail sticking out of the top, which probably had a limited impact, certainly compared to the organisations like Sea Shepherd who are taking on whaling ships head on. That was my passion at the time, but interestingly that was also my first impact-led action too.

This story speaks to the need I felt to act, and it led to Luke and I to meeting at the Wilderness Society. That was a fun time, we were a bunch of hippies on the streets campaigning at the grassroots level. My fondest memory was Luke jumping out of a plane dressed as a koala with his ears pinned back! It was the first time I'd seen a koala fly, and he did it quite well.

Jokes aside, in terms of my introduction to social enterprise, my hat’s off to Luke. We were just a bunch of grassroots hippies, but Luke always had these discussion points around using business to create change. That was probably where my knowledge of social enterprise originated.

From there, we went on to start our little green energy agency, which was bit of a disaster because we backed the wrong horse. That was right at the beginning of the renewable energy and carbon markets, so it was a bit of a murky space.

On a positive note, that led me to go on and explore the space more. I was lucky enough to join a small start-up in Byron Bay called Climate Friendly, and I worked with them for about five years. It was the first time I came across the term profit for purpose as well.

I'm pleased to say to this day Climate Friendly is right at the forefront of the industry. They are a respected market leader, which is very different to our initial experience with what people would now call greenwashing.

In 2011, I went on a holiday with my daughter to India. She was eight years old, and I decided to open her eyes up to the world, but I also wanted to ponder life myself.

Coming back to Australia, I visited the Gurindji community up north. It was only supposed to be for three years, but it ended up being for 10. That was a real privilege as much as it was incredibly challenging, but they're in a good spot now which I'm proud of. These new ideas of Good Projects Australia and Deadly Sheds are where we're at now.

As the co-founders of Deadly Sheds, can you please share more about this social enterprise and what problem you're seeking to address?

[Luke Wright] – We’re seeking to address two things at Deadly Sheds.

Firstly, it's a common issue with housing in remote communities. Remote community housing is typically owned by and managed by the federal, state and territory governments. They're often quite poorly designed without proper consultation; they usually are not much more than the bare basics.

They can be overcrowded and regularly lack culturally appropriate infrastructure. This is particularly in the outdoor spaces, where they're often missing simple things like shelters, outdoor cooking spaces, privacy screens, yarding service, and family spaces.

It's so obvious when you're in these communities that these things are lacking. These issues can have huge negative flow on effects for health, education, social cohesion, and more.

[Phil Smith] - This concept came from my experience of living with the Gurindji community up north. Luke has also been a part of that in recent years too. The idea of Deadly Sheds is to address the important issues of housing and health.

However, men are also disempowered in these communities, and by saying this I’m not discounting that women and children are too. But we recognise that men are often seeking ways to be stronger, and empowering men is critical to enabling healthy communities.

Deadly Sheds helps to establish men sheds within communities, which delivers all the many known health and well-being benefits these facilities bring. Then we go one step further beyond that by embedding an employment based social enterprise within each shed, that constructs, assembles, and builds important housing infrastructure.

As a result, we have local men with meaningful jobs building much needed additions for their families, and we think there's something powerful about that. It ticks a lot of boxes like housing, health, jobs, and self-determination. We’re in the early stages of our journey, but excited about this.

As an AMP Foundation Tomorrow Makers, you’re currently getting support to develop and grow Deadly Sheds. What have been your reflections and learnings from the support to date?

[Phil Smith] - Firstly, I’ll speak about the financial support. I think many listeners would probably understand it's often a lonely and financially challenging journey to start any enterprise, let alone social enterprises.

We're thankful for the seed funding provided by the AMP Foundation Tomorrow Makers program. They're allowing us to focus on this project rather than others to be honest with you, and the connections we've made in the business for good community are just super inspiring.

[Luke Wright] – The Tomorrow Makers program has been great.

Apart from the obvious financial benefits, I think for me personally, a welcome surprise has been the benefits of connecting with like-minded people going through similar challenges. The AMP Foundation has provided a huge professional networking opportunity, but more importantly, it's a great space for sharing thoughts, feelings and challenges.

It's something new for me to have this, I've often just done things on my own. It's like a bit of a monthly therapy session to be honest, and I think that’s a good thing.

Having worked within the Australian business for good space, what are your observations and where are these opportunities to grow this movement?

[Luke Wright] - I probably don't have my finger on the pulse enough currently to make too many profound observations, but I'm happy to see the movements is growing.

One small and maybe left of centre observation I've been pondering is where introverts fit into the business for good ecosystem. I think similarly to the broader business community, there's a tendency to reward the best speakers, pitches, and podcasters.

I'm interested to see how the quiet voices can get more seats at the table; it's important when considering there are communities and cultures who are typically less likely to sell and pitch themselves. People with English as a second language is one good example.

[Phil Smith] – That fits what I'll say or suggest based on my own experiences recently.

Listening to quieter voices fits with the theme and need to engage with remote communities who often don't have a voice, particularly after the recent failure of the Voice to Parliament. On a practical level, I think a lot of the barriers to communication within remote Australia are coming down by providing simple things like an internet connection through Starlink.

That's an opportunity, and there are some real existing and emerging networks in that space. People might have heard of Supply Nation, and there's also the Northern Territory Indigenous Business Network. The frameworks are there, and maybe there is a practical way to connect the business for good community with those channels. That’s my thoughts on how we could connect with the people in need out there in community.

What advice would you give to other social entrepreneurs who are looking to start or grow their enterprise?

[Luke Wright] - For people coming into the industry, I'd say make sure you're passionate about the cause you're looking to work on.

Make sure you’re willing to put in a lot of effort over several years and have a healthy relationship with stress. I learned that the hard way. If you're not comfortable with being slammed regularly, then maybe social enterprise is not the place for you.

Be comfortable with stress, that's important. I'd also point out there are a lot of causes and projects already underway. Before diving into a new project, it's important for people to look at what others are doing and how you might be able to help an existing enterprise.

[Phil Smith] - I agree with everything said there; have passion for the purpose you’re serving. Being flexible is also important.

Be willing to adapt your plans and even your core mission if required. On a positive note, don't be surprised if your good intentions manifest in unexpected ways. Changing your tactics isn't always forced by negative outcomes. Having the flexibility to adapt is crucial, it's a long journey to create change.

What inspiring projects or initiatives have you come across creating positive change?

[Luke Wright] - At the recent Reignite Retreat we attended with you, Impact Boom and the AMP Foundation, I was super happy to meet all the attendees and hear about what they're doing. There were so many unique founders, one of a call centre staffed by over 50 workers, another of remote community op shops, and others getting people out of prison into work.

They're just a few of the initiatives I heard about there. I also loved hearing about CSIRO's On Accelerate program, which is helping scientists and researchers to commercialise their world changing ideas. That sounded fascinating to me.

[Phil Smith] – I have a little passion of mine I’d like to mention, and it's exciting and inspiring. It’s also the start of a long journey, and this project is about oysters.

Oysters are the little critters of the ocean that are the powerhouses of healthy ecosystems. I'm lucky enough to have a group of mates (Luke included) that’s been exploring a design to enable an oyster farming industry in Northern Australia and the Pacific.

It's particularly exciting for me because if we pull it off through a strong design and networking, it can potentially offer significant economic, food security, and climate resilience benefits for Indigenous and Pacific Island communities. It also upholds their land and sea rights.

That's something I'm lucky enough to be working on, and I wanted to mention oysters because I believe they can save the world!

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To finish off, what books or resources would you recommend to our audience?

[Luke Wright] - I'll recommend a book called Story by Robert McKee. It’s a well-known book, but it goes into great detail what is story and how does it work. It's super fascinating. It’s relevant to understanding how to communicate the story of social enterprises and business for good.

[Phil Smith] - One book comes to mind, and I'll stick with the remote Indigenous communities’ theme here. The book is called Why Warriors Lay Down and Die by Richard Trudgen. It gives an insight into the life of the Yolngu people before Europeans largely arrived on Arnhem Land in northern Australia.

It offers some real practical insights into communicating between the two worlds. It’s can help provide guidance for people on the journey of reconciliation, as the business for good network starts possibly connecting with remote Australia.