Pierre Berastaín On Implementing Adaptive Solutions To Catalyse Systems Change

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Pierre Berastaín is the Interim Executive Director of the Centre for Public Impact. He brings over 15 years of experience in organisational management and program implementation.

He is the Co-Founder of Caminar Latino-Latinos United for Peace and Equity, a national organisation focused on addressing gender-based violence.

He has previously held leadership roles at organisations such as the District Alliance for Safe Housing, Harvard University, and Esperanza United, focusing on gender-based violence. A published author and public speaker, Pierre has been recognised for his work in immigration, LGBTQ advocacy, and restorative justice.

Pierre holds degrees from Harvard College and Harvard Divinity School as well as a doctorate in public health from UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health. Originally from Peru, he now resides in Washington, DC with his husband Paul.

Pierre discusses adopting the systems thinking approach to initiate widespread impact, and where opportunities exist for organisations to support the initiatives and enterprises generating sustainable, community centred impact.

Highlights from the interview (listen to the podcast for full details)

[Indio Myles] - To start off, can you please share a bit about your background and what led to your work with change makers and impact?

[Pierre Berastaín] - I was born in Peru, and I grew up there during the internal warfare resulting from a vacuum in government and the societal neglect of the most marginalised communities in my country.

When I was growing up, we had family friends who were killed in car bombs. I tell the story of my mum who told me to carry a pen to school as a six-year-old so that I could defend myself by stabbing someone if they were trying to abduct me.

She would also give me a towel to put in my backpack with a bottle of water in the case there was a gas attack. This was so I could douse the towel with water and then put it against my little face so I could breathe air that was somewhat filtered and then run away.

I saw my mum cry sometimes because she didn't know if we would have enough money to buy toilet paper or rice. My family went through cycles of being able to comfortably live in Peru to just completely crashing. It was just tremendously unstable.

It was these circumstances which forced us to migrate to the United States. When I got here, I saw a government failure in how we treated immigrants, how we treated gay boys, and how we excluded or erased my family from participation in public life.

I was an undocumented gay Latino immigrant who didn't speak English and didn’t know anything about the United States who was living in Texas. I'd say that those experiences in Peru and the United States ended up shaping my passion for social justice, and from quite early on, I felt a desire to align lessons from those lived experiences to the vocation and mission I would choose in life.

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My vocation formed around social justice from a young age; I've devoted my career to working with survivors of gender-based violence, domestic sexual violence, sex trafficking, immigration and LGBTQ communities.

I've seen firsthand the fraught relationship between government, community organisations and the underfunding of critical lifesaving services. I've worked in capacity building efforts, consulting for non-profits, policy and research. I’ve worked quite a bit with systems change in different government adjacent sectors. At the Centre for Public Impact, I get to bring all those experiences together.

We work with governments and change makers to reimagine systems so that they are more inclusive, equitable and responsive to the people they serve. It’s about bridging the gap between communities and institutions by addressing the root causes of systemic issues. We’re creating spaces where the voices of those most impacted by injustices are truly heard and truly valued.

For me, this work is deeply personal. It's a way to honour the resilience of my own story and my family's story while also helping to build a future where others don't have to navigate the same injustices we did.

As Interim Executive Director at the Centre for Public Impact, can you please share some of the activities you're involved in creating better outcomes for society?

The Centre for Public Impact is a global nonprofit with a pretty bold mission. We want to reimagine government so that it truly works for everyone, and that assumes we still believe that government can be the answer (which I think people can debate)!

We were founded by the Boston Consulting Group, and what we do is partner with governments, public servants and change makers around the world to tackle big, complex challenges.

It’s about figuring out how systems of governments (many of which were frankly built for a different era) can adapt to meet today's world. We are using in a way 18th and 19th century systems for 21st century problems, and I'll give a couple of examples.

We work with governments to explore critical issues such as equity, innovation and public trust. We help them experiment with new ways of doing things, whether that's through using AI responsibly or by designing more inclusive, user friendly services that people can access.

We also bring people together, whether they are public servants, academics or community leaders, so that they can learn from each other and collaborate on solutions in different spaces.

What I think is exciting about the Centre for Public Impact is we're not just focused on fixing what's broken. We are looking ahead to create systems that are resilient and future ready.

While we're a relatively small organisation, our reach is global. We have teams in North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Asia (more focused in India). It's about being what we call a learning partner to systems and a bridge builder, meaning that we connect ideas.

We want to connect people and sectors to drive meaningful change, and it is quite challenging work that’s incredibly inspiring and rewarding.

How would you describe the systems thinking approach for creating social change? What tools can leaders use to embrace and enact this approach effectively?

Let's take a step back to talk about systems thinking, because systems thinking is literally about seeing the bigger picture.

Systems thinking involves seeing things from a balcony or 300,000-foot viewpoint instead of looking at problems in isolation or jumping straight to conclusions. Systems thinking requires understanding the webs of connections, policies, behaviours, and underlying structures that are creating the outcomes we see and that we're seeking to solve.

A lot of times organisations, leaders, and governments tackle complex problems with technical solutions. These might work if we're lucky in very short terms, but they don't address root causes.

For example, let’s look at homelessness. It's a space I used to work in, and a technical solution might be to increase the number of shelter beds available. This can provide temporary relief, but it doesn’t address the systemic cause of homelessness like a lack of affordable housing, mental health services, or living wages.

It doesn't address domestic violence (which also drives homelessness), so in some cases, these technical short-term solutions or band-aid solutions can backfire.

Let's now consider if a city implements homelessness encampments to move people into shelters. We've had this in Washington D.C., where we just swept people experiencing homelessness into shelters by saying, "you can't be here anymore."

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This might make a public space appear "cleaner" temporarily or allow a developer to develop a luxury apartment building to rent. However, that solution often disrupts the fragile support networks people experiencing homelessness have and it forces people into further crisis.

It makes it harder for people experiencing homelessness to access services or to stabilise their lives. By treating it as a linear problem, we again risk creating band-aid solutions that don’t lead to lasting change.

On the other hand, systems thinking calls for adaptive and responsive solutions. It's about being nimble and recognising we can’t just ‘fix’ a problem, but it's also about shifting the conditions that allow a problem to persist in the first place.

A great example of this would be climate change. Tackling it systemically means addressing energy systems, consumer behaviour, corporate practices, and how we educate future generations. This requires layered interconnected changes rather than singular interventions.

How can leaders embrace systems thinking? I think it starts with adaptive thinking and being open to learning, experimenting, and listening to diverse perspectives. Leaders cannot assume they have all the answers, instead, they need to create spaces for collaboration and allowing different stakeholders to contribute their insights.

There are tools like scenario planning, systems mapping, and feedback loops that can be incredibly helpful in showing you what a system looks like. These tools help show you the stress and leverage points you can activate to create ripple effects.

More than anything, leaders need to get comfortable with complexity, and that means shifting from a mindset of control and certainty to one of curiosity and humility. The best solutions often emerge from the collective wisdom of the people who are most affected by a problem.

It's not easy, but systems thinking is the only way to create the deep, lasting change most pressing challenges require.

Can you please share some examples of initiatives you have worked with who have successfully applied the systems thinking approach?

I'm going to brag a little bit about the Centre for Public Impact and my teams. One initiative that comes to mind that I'm particularly proud to highlight is a program in the City of Pomona in California. It's a guaranteed income pilot program they recently launched.

Initially, they came to us with the goal to reduce gaps in kindergarten readiness. They realised several kindergartners from marginalised communities were not prepared for kindergarten, and that was the problem they wanted to fix.

Of course, that could have a technical solution, but through a discovery process they realised the challenges of kindergarten readiness are intertwined with larger issues of inequality and poverty.

This program is a great example of systems thinking to address systemic poverty and inequality, because instead of focusing solely on the technical solutions (e.g. increasing access to food banks, building shelters for marginalised kindergartners, or giving them increased access to educational tools), Pomona looked at the broader ecosystem contributing to economic instability.

The city recognised poverty is deeply interconnected with housing and security, healthcare access, and employment challenges.

Through this pilot program, they're providing $500 a month to 125 families for 12 months. They are hoping to target or alleviate the pressures of systemic inequality or inequities.

While it's just $500, for some folks that can go a long way. I can tell you as an immigrant who lived under the poverty line, $500 a month would have made a huge difference. But what makes this initiative stand out is not the cash, it's about reframing the relationship between government and communities.

It's acknowledging the dignity and agency of individuals rather than assuming poverty stems from a lack of effort. I say this because giving cash infusions is a controversial practice which is beginning to gain traction.

The idea people often have is how can you just give money to folks? What are they going to do with it? What are the monitoring mechanisms we need to have? By doing this pilot program, the City of Pomona is acknowledging the dignity and agency that individuals have in taking control of their own lives by trusting them.

Now, Pomona is also pairing this pilot with community-based evaluation processes to learn what works and doesn't work. Here's the cool thing, they can take these insights and leverage them to inform broader policy changes.

By focusing on a specific intervention within a systemic framework, they're working to create ripple effects that go way beyond the program itself, to potentially reshape how poverty is addressed in the future City of Pomona.

This is systems thinking at its core, looking at various factors that are interconnected, challenging traditional approaches, and experimenting with adaptive community cantered solutions. It's about changing the narrative and structures that perpetuate inequality in the first place, and that's what makes it so impactful.

What support do you believe social enterprises and organisations are lacking to maximise their impact and address systemic issues?

Let me just highlight one of them. One of the biggest challenges organisations and leaders face is operating from a scarcity mindset. They’re always trying to do more with less, by optimising again and again.

This mindset isn’t about money. This mindset affects how we support people, design systems, and prioritise the wellbeing of our workforce. I'll share a personal story that shifted my perspective several years ago.

A few years ago, I had a team member who came to my office saying, "I can't do this anymore. I quit and want to give you my two weeks’ notice." He said that he loved the work and mission of the organisation, but he was burned out and felt completely unsupported.

I remember feeling this overwhelming sense of sadness and disappointment in myself because I hadn’t seen it coming. He had a 300–400-person caseload and he was on call 24/7.

I had been coaching him to focus on what he could control to take accountability for his work and to put boundaries, all the platitudes and easy fixes managers suggest. How can you shift your work and streamline it?

In doing this, I had ignored the systemic issues driving his burnout, so this became a pivotal moment for me. I realised I was displacing the responsibility for emotionally draining work on the individual instead of addressing the structural causes.

For him, the issue wasn't a lack of resilience or coping skills, it was a 300-person caseload and being on call 24/7. It was just unsustainable. Burnout is often framed as an individual issue, we promote solutions like yoga classes, meditation and even bonuses as if that's going to take care of the problem.

The truth is burnout comes from structural problems oftentimes, how we design the work, allocate resources and support our teams. After that conversation, we had a heart to heart and as an organisation, individuals and leadership ended up apologising to my colleague for leaving him unsupported. After this, we committed to making changes.

I asked him if he would be willing to stay to help us make changes, and together, we advocated for additional funding from the government. We secured nearly a million dollars to hire more staff, redesign and revamp the processes that were screwing up his work life balance.

Now I will say this, that change wasn't easy to make happen. We had to start by mapping resources, understanding exactly where our gaps were and engaging other stakeholders to help us advocate for change.

A big part of this process was working closely with government partners who had been placing an overwhelming number of cases on him. We had to be vulnerable and share openly what was working (and more importantly) what wasn't working.

I remember one particularly heated moment where I was on a Zoom call (because this was during the pandemic), and I just put my hands down and said, "I refuse to be complicit in the exploitation of a black man by piling on more and more work until they burn out. We need to do better, and we need to do it together, and I need you to be a partner in this rather than just making excuses.”

I remember I was so angry and frustrated; it was a tough conversation. But I think it helped bring attention to structural issues while shifting the focus towards solutions. In the end, my colleague not only stayed, but he became the director of the department we created with the additional resources we secured.

He wasn't just reacting to crises anymore. He was able to work upstream and design sustainable processes fostering better work life balance and conditions where the entire team could thrive.

I tell this story because this experience taught me that supporting organisations to maximise impact isn’t just about giving them the right tools or the funding. It's about rethinking how we design systems to make work sustainable, and so leaders need to create the conditions where teams can think systemically and not just survive on a day-to-day basis.

It's about shifting from crisis management to prevention and from scarcity to systemic preparedness and resilience. When we do that, we can unlock the potential for real lasting change.

Now, the problem is that when you are operating in scarcity already, you literally do not have the time and space to sit back and think of systemically adaptive solutions. You just don't have the time to reimagine how you can operate, and that's why I love working with CPI.

Our team partners with systems all around the world to create the space and conditions where leaders can step away from a crisis and their day-to-day operations to unlock their collective wisdom and reimagine government systems so they work for everyone.

What advice would you give to an aspiring entrepreneur or changemaker hoping to make a difference?

I would say embrace curiosity and humility. Remember that the issue you're tackling, whether it's social justice, climate change, or systemic inequity are likely incredibly complex, and no one has all the answers.

Be curious about what systems and structures perpetuate the problem you want to solve and listen deeply to the people most affected. They'll often have the insights and solutions you might not expect, and at the same time, don't underestimate the importance of starting small.

We think change must come with sweeping reforms, and it doesn't always have to be that way. Sometimes it's the quiet, steady work of building trust, forging relationships, and shifting one piece of the system one moment at a time that’s important.

We hear people say, “burn the system down.” Sometimes that creates a lot of more problems because it's easy to burn it down, but then you need to rebuild it. Big impact can start with small intentional steps, and I would say don't be afraid to challenge the status quo and think differently.

Real change often requires us to move beyond conventional solutions and to again embrace adaptive responsive strategies. Applying systems thinking can help you see how those various factors and variables in a system interconnect and where your efforts might have the greatest impact.

Be open to experimenting, learning from failures and evolving your approach as you go. I would also say (and I don’t think this is particularly wise or anything) don't try to do it alone. Collaboration is key, and building a strong network of allies and collaborators who bring diverse perspective and skills is important.

Surround yourself with people who bring diverse perspectives and skills. This is particularly important because collaboration amplifies impact. Together you can tackle challenges that might seem or in fact are insurmountable if you do it alone. We must remember that systems don't change in isolation, and neither do people.

By working with others, you not only strengthen your efforts, but you also create sustainable momentum for change. The last thing I’d mention is the importance of taking care of yourself. Change making is deeply rewarding, but it's also demanding, and burnout is real.

That's why it's important to create practices that sustain your energy and focus on the long haul. Remember the best ways to inspire change in others is to model that balance of resilience and adaptive thinking you hope to see in the systems you're working to transform.

What books or resources would you recommend to our audience?

One book I would recommend is Emergent Strategy, and it's an incredible exploration of how we can think and act more intentionally to create meaningful change. The book is inspired by nature, movement building, and even science fiction. It challenges us to embrace complexity, adaptability and interconnectedness in our work. It's like a guide for change makers to navigate a constantly shifting world.

Another book I'd recommend is Entangled Life, and it's strange because it’s all about fungi and how fungi shape the planet. Maybe I'm recommending it because I just read it (it's an unusual recommendation for systems change), but fungi are everywhere.

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Fungi connect ecosystems in ways we rarely think about, and so the book shifts your perspective on the complex and fragile systems that sustain life. For me, it becomes a metaphor for the interdependence and resilience we need in our own human created systems, so it's a fascinating reminder of how much we can learn from nature.

Thinking In Systems: A Primer is a foundational book. The Fifth Discipline: The art and practice of the learning organization is a classic that explores how organisations can adopt systems thinking to foster learning and collaboration, and it includes practical tools like causal loop diagrams and personal mastery.

Finally, of course, I'm going to recommend checking out the Centre for Public Impact and our resources, we have tons of tools, frameworks and ways of thinking that are designed to help governments and changemakers tackle complex challenges.

Whether it's systems thinking, innovation, or community engagement, we just love to share what we've learned, and we'd love to partner with people who are passionate about making a difference.