Ben Gales On Mobilising Community And Government Collaboration To Accelerate The Social Enterprise Movement
With a career spanning finance, government, and impact investment, Ben Gales has worked to help social enterprises thrive. Now, as the head of Queensland’s first Office of Social Impact, Ben will work to support social enterprises and impact investment—helping deliver real solutions for Queenslanders.
Previously, Ben Gales was the Chief Delivery Officer at the Paul Ramsay Foundation. From 2013 to 2016, he served as CEO of Sefa. An economist by training, Ben brings deep expertise in impact investing, social impact measurement, and fostering innovation, having led major reforms and initiatives across government, finance, and the social sectors.
In the UK, Ben was involved in the early days of impact investing through the launch of the Social Investment Taskforce in 2000 under Sir Ronald Cohen while working at HM Treasury.
In the NSW Government, he played a critical role in developing Australia’s first Social Impact Bonds, “Newpin” and “Resilient Families,” and managed the Office of Social Impact Investment, overseeing over $200 million in impact investments and payment-by-outcome contracts. Ben also led the establishment of the NSW Productivity Commission and developed the NSW Evidence Bank within NSW Treasury. His experience includes working in venture capital with 3i plc in the UK and US from 2000 to 2008. He has sat on several boards and is currently a board member of the Justice Health and Forensic Mental Health Network.
Ben discusses Queensland’s $80 million commitment to social entrepreneurship, the importance of co-designing systemic solutions with communities, and how transparency, governance and scale are key to growing impactful enterprises.
Highlights from the interview (listen to the podcast for full details)
[Indio Myles] - To start off, can you please share a bit about your background and what led to your passion in social enterprise and impact investing?
[Ben Gales] - By training, I’m an economist, and over the course of my career, I’ve had the opportunity to work across three distinct sectors. The first is commercial investing, where I gained experience in private equity and venture capital.
The second is government policy, predominantly focused on social policy. I oversaw the establishment of the NSW Office of Social Impact Investment and helped set up the state’s Productivity Commission.
My early exposure to social enterprise came while I was working at the UK Treasury, where we were exploring strategies to address disadvantage in under-resourced communities. It was through that work the potential of social enterprise and social finance first became clear to me.
Now, I'm based in the Queensland Treasury, continuing that public sector journey. The third sector I’ve been part of is what I would describe as the social sector. You mentioned Sefa, and more recently, I was Chief Impact Officer at the Paul Ramsay Foundation.
Across these different roles, there’s a consistent thread: being intentional about what we’re trying to achieve, understanding why we measure impact, and using those insights to do better.
Whether it's social enterprise, impact investing, or government policy, none of it matters unless it’s improving lives. That’s what drives me. From an economics perspective, markets can be incredibly powerful—they send price signals and create incentives that, in theory, drive efficiency.
But they are also fundamentally flawed. Unless we account for externalities—the non-financial spillover effects—they can’t function properly. The question becomes what are we doing with social enterprise, impact investing, and even government mechanisms like Payment By Outcomes (PBO).
We’re uncovering and recognising those externalities, so we can adjust the system and get markets to work the way they should, for people. Markets should serve people, not the other way around. That’s the philosophy underpinning my work.
Ultimately, it’s about harnessing new resources to address complex societal issues. We need to ensure those resources are used effectively and with genuine impact. That’s the nutshell version of my background which informs the passion I bring to this work.
As the head of Queensland's first Office of Social Impact, tell us a little bit more about what the Office is doing and what you're looking to achieve?
This work stems from a commitment made by the Treasurer—an election commitment, in fact. Our mission is threefold. First, we’re establishing the Office of Social Impact Investment. Second, we’re administering an $80 million Social Entrepreneurs Fund, which will be distributed as $20 million each year over four years.
Third, we’re developing a roadmap for social enterprise and impact investing in Queensland. Those are the headline objectives.
At the heart of these commitments is a simple question: how do we improve lives across Queensland, particularly for those living in marginalised and under-resourced communities? A key message we want to reinforce is that government cannot address these challenges alone. It’s a whole-of-community effort. That old expression—it takes a village to raise a child—might be a little worn, but it still holds truth.
These complex issues require collective action, and the solutions demand participation from government, non-government, and commercial sectors alike.
The Office exists to help bring these diverse sectors together. It’s about harnessing all the available resources, engaging the brightest minds, learning from structures that already work, and scaling proven solutions.
Ultimately, we’re building a platform for collaboration that enables systems change—because when we combine our strengths, we’re far more likely to achieve meaningful and lasting impact.
In bringing people together, how might Queenslanders then engage with the Office and become an active part of that co-design process to help shape what that action looks like in their communities?
One of the key messages we’re sending is that government doesn’t have all the answers. That’s why we’re placing a strong emphasis on hearing from community leaders, social sector organisations, and for-purpose enterprises.
As part of our work developing the roadmap for social enterprise and impact investing, we’ll be launching a dedicated engagement process. Right now, we’re in the early stages, and we’re putting together an issues paper that will help focus the feedback we’re seeking. Once that’s ready, we’ll be opening up the process to invite input from across the community.
We’re expecting this engagement to kick off around late April to May. There will be opportunities for everyone to have their say, and we’ll also be running some targeted consultations to ensure we’re hearing from a broad and diverse cross-section of Queenslanders.
We’re genuinely eager to hear people’s ideas—particularly around how we should be using the $80 million Social Entrepreneurs Fund. It’s an incredible opportunity, and we want to ensure those resources are allocated in a rigorous and impactful way.
We also don’t claim to have all the solutions, which is why this co-design process is so important. So we’re asking Queenslanders to watch this space and get involved—we want your insights, ideas, and vision for what’s needed in your communities.
What do you believe is needed to grow the social enterprise landscape in Australia and to make business for good just business as usual?
To start, let’s revisit that slightly nerdy but important conversation about externalities. Every decision we make—how we travel, where we work, what we consume—has an impact.
When we think about embedding business for good into everyday practice across the for-purpose sector, I believe the first step is transparency. We need to make visible the true impact of our actions and activities.
There are many organisations already doing remarkable work, but they’re not always recognised for the positive impact they’re creating on behalf of Queenslanders.
Take Australian Spatial Analytics or the work White Box Enterprises is doing with the Department of Social Services through Payment by Outcomes (PBO)—they’re providing meaningful employment opportunities and driving systems change. But without transparency around their outcomes, it’s hard for them to gain the recognition and support they deserve.
That’s where I would begin—shining a light on impact. The next challenge is scale. This is a tough nut to crack, and one the sector faces collectively. Time and again, we’ve seen that the organisations that do scale successfully are often those that receive payments for the impact they deliver. Without some form of monetisation or outcome-based funding, many social enterprises hit a ceiling.
There’s a real gap in the Australian social enterprise landscape when it comes to linking impact with payment. We have excellent examples of government programs like Workforce Australia, CDP, and Self-Employment Assistance that fund providers based on outcomes like employment. Yet many Work Integrated Social Enterprises, which make up about half the sector, are doing similar work by helping people furthest from the labour market—but they aren’t yet fully integrated into that service system.
If we could establish mechanisms where those enterprises are paid for the impact they achieve, I believe it would be transformative. Recognising and rewarding outcomes—alongside transparent measurement—are essential steps toward making business for good the default, not the exception.
If you look at the jobs market, there are several large-scale government programs—Workforce Australia, CDP (Community Development Program), DES (Disability Employment Services), and SEA (Self-Employment Assistance)—that effectively fund outcomes.
These programs pay service providers based on results, such as getting people into employment. But if that’s the model, where are the equivalent outcome payments within the social enterprise ecosystem?
It’s worth noting approximately half of all social enterprises are Work Integrated Social Enterprises (WISEs). Their core impact lies in creating employment opportunities for individuals who have traditionally been furthest from the labour market. So why aren’t these enterprises formally integrated into the employment services system and receiving outcome-based payments? If we could embed WISEs in that framework and ensure they’re being rewarded for the outcomes they deliver, it would be truly transformative.
White Box Enterprises has been doing impressive work with DSS in this area, and the advocacy led by Social Enterprise Australia has been excellent. The opportunity is certainly there, we just need to act on it. If we want to talk about what’s needed to help social enterprises scale, these are exactly the kinds of initiatives we should be focusing on.
Another major lever is social procurement. When organisations—whether government, corporate or community-based—choose to buy from social enterprises, they’re not just purchasing a product or service, they’re investing in social outcomes. As consumers, we also have a role to play, by being more mindful about where we spend our money and who we support, we can drive demand for businesses that prioritise positive impact.
Ultimately, both outcome-based funding and procurement have the power to be genuinely transformational. They enable social enterprises to scale sustainably, while ensuring their impact is recognised, valued, and amplified.
What of the biggest challenges you've seen purpose-driven founders come up against, and what advice would you give to help them move forward?
One of the most important things for any social enterprise is to be solid on governance and commerciality. The word “enterprise” is there for a reason—these are trading entities, and like any other business, they’re going to face bumps in the road.
What makes it even more challenging for social enterprises is the dual mission: they have to manage the commercial pressures of running a business while also delivering social impact. That’s a tough balance to strike.
The impact these organisations are delivering can be extraordinary—there are some truly impressive examples out there. But what’s critical is having a clear line of sight on the commercial side of the organisation. Financial acumen and good governance aren’t just administrative necessities—they're essential for resilience.
It might not sound particularly exciting, but having a capable board around you makes a massive difference. I’ve been a CEO myself, and it can be a lonely role. A high-quality board can help shape your strategy, offer a sounding board for ideas, and flag potential issues before they become problems.
This side of running a social enterprise is often underestimated because we’re rightly passionate about the purpose and impact. But if you're going to deliver that impact sustainably, it has to be underpinned by strong financial and governance foundations.
I’ll repeat myself on this point—scale makes a world of difference. When I was CEO of Sefa, I saw how important scale was for sustainability. Hanna Ebeling, who is now the CEO, is doing a phenomenal job—far better than I ever did. She’s managed to grow the business to a point where it’s both sustainable and profitable, and that shift has made a real difference.
For founders and leaders: focus on financial acumen, strong governance, and scaling your organisation. These elements are absolutely critical to navigating challenges and amplifying your impact.
From working with hundreds of social enterprises, we have observed that approximately 85-90% of founders and leaders are either experiencing or at risk of burnout. Do you have any tips for leaders to manage their wellbeing so they can function at their best and help their organisations thrive?
This is a really important issue, and one that deserves far more attention. Being the CEO of any organisation is demanding, but when you add the additional layer of prioritising impact, it becomes even more complex.
The challenges are multifaceted, and while people often say there’s no trade-off between impact and financial returns, in reality there often is. Navigating those competing demands can be incredibly taxing.
My first piece of advice is find your mob. Connect with like-minded leaders and organisations. I'm a big supporter of groups like QSEC, where you can find peers going through similar challenges. The social enterprise sector is diverse, but when you connect with others who understand the pressures, it can make a real difference. Sharing the journey—even informally—can be incredibly grounding.
I’d also bring it back again to governance. Having a strong board isn't just about oversight—it can also be a support network. Quality board members can be invaluable for bouncing ideas, shaping strategy, and simply being there as a source of counsel.
I’m glad you’ve raised this issue because it’s something I’ve seen firsthand also, especially in this post-COVID environment. That period was a huge shock to the system for many social enterprises, and the level of pressure leaders were under was immense. Many have done remarkable work, but the risk of burnout remains real and persistent.
From my time at the Paul Ramsay Foundation, we recognised this and made it a priority to support leaders more holistically. Initiatives like SILA (Social Impact Leadership Australia) are fantastic examples of how we can provide not only training but genuine leadership support.
Programs like these are essential for sustaining leaders and, by extension, the sector as a whole. As a community, we need to prioritise the wellbeing of those who are leading this work—because if they’re not thriving, their organisations won’t either.
What inspiring projects or initiatives have you come across recently creating a positive change?
There are quite a few standout organisations doing fantastic work at the moment. MiHaven in Cairns, for instance, is delivering impact through construction-focused initiatives and I think they’re doing a tremendous job.
I’ve already mentioned Australian Spatial Analytics, and Fruit2Work is another great example—they started in Victoria and have now expanded into Queensland. Their focus on creating employment pathways for ex-offenders is incredibly powerful.
I’m also really impressed by the Payment by Outcomes initiative led by White Box Enterprises. It’s a model that’s pushing the boundaries of what we consider part of the for-purpose sector, and it’s exactly the kind of innovation we need more of.
Another one to watch is Covidence, an organisation using machine learning to carry out rapid evidence reviews. That kind of tech-driven efficiency is really exciting. And then there’s High Resolves, who are doing pioneering work at the intersection of AI and education.
More broadly, I see a real opportunity for AI across the social sector. It's still early days, but I believe it could play a significant role in enhancing service delivery and expanding impact.
there are so many inspiring leaders and initiatives out there. The opportunity in this space is enormous, and it's not a matter of lacking great ideas. What we need now is to rally the support, investment, and systems that can help bring these innovations to scale.
To finish off, what books or resources would you recommend to our audience?
I’ll be honest—books aren’t really my thing! I tend to be more of a “learning by doing” kind of person. So rather than recommending books, I’d point people toward some fantastic resources and organisations where you can learn a great deal.
Start with the QSEC website and Social Enterprise Australia—both have an abundance of valuable insights and tools for anyone working in or curious about the space. I’m sure Impact Boom also has an extensive list of resources worth exploring!
In terms of people and organisations to learn from, I’d highlight Social Traders—some of the insights from their data are incredibly useful. Then there’s Jo Barraket and the SEEED Kit—tremendous contributions to the field. I also got a lot out of some of the material coming from Griffith University.
Two organisations that stand out as great learning examples are The Foyer Foundation, which is exploring a kind of franchising model to scale youth housing with impact, and Tender Funerals, which is delivering dignity at end-of-life through affordable funeral services.
These aren’t books, but they are people and organisations doing brilliant, impactful work—and there’s so much to learn from how they operate. For me, that kind of practical, real-world learning is where the gold is.
