Kate Hogan On Social Procurement Driving Value By Supporting Purpose Led Businesses
Kate is a qualified and experienced construction professional with expertise in social impact, stakeholder management, sales, and marketing.
Working across multiple commercial construction projects to drive social impact initiatives, Kate focuses on driving realistic, achievable, and lasting social change by leveraging her experience to leave a lasting legacy.
Before joining John Holland, Kate worked in commercial and marketing leadership roles in the steel industry, Tier 1 construction companies, and prefabricated fit-out manufacturers. This broad understanding of the industry helps her engage the market effectively.
Kate also has firsthand experience with social enterprises, including working as part of a commercial landscaping team to establish a social enterprise nursery that offsets climate change impacts. Kate has also successfully navigated the social enterprise certification process and shared her knowledge with other organizations, resulting in their certification.
Kate’s work ethic and deep commitment to meaningful engagement with local communities and the social enterprise sector showcases the importance of leaving a lasting positive impact on local communities.
Kate discusses How the social procurement landscape is catalysing and growing impact-led projects across Australia, and why social enterprises, governments, and large businesses need to share resources and collaborate to achieve positive change.
Highlights from the interview (listen to the podcast for full details)
[Indio Myles] - To start off, can you please share a bit about your background and what led you to working in social procurement?
[Kate Hogan] - Most of my career has been spent in and around building and construction. I've always been drawn to social initiatives, and as you mentioned, I was involved in the creation of a social enterprise nursery.
The rise of social procurement, particularly in Victoria over the last six years, has changed the trajectory of my career. I now find myself managing social procurement for a Tier 1 building business in Victoria. For me, it's a perfect role, because it allows me to do good every day as part of my job. My job is very aligned to my values.
As the social procurement manager at John Holland Building Business, can you share more about your purpose and what impact-led projects you're delivering in this role?
I work at the state level as the social procurement manager for John Holland's Building Business in Victoria.
The whole purpose of my role is to transform lives through the projects we create. We do this by embedding social procurement into every element of a build, and in doing so, we bring our subcontractors along on the journey with us.
A lot of what we do is around educating subcontractors, because their success equals our success. We've got to bring them along for the ride, and it’s quite satisfying to see some of our subcontractors come from a zero-knowledge base to by the end of the project being coherent in all thing’s social procurement.
We're currently delivering several projects across the state for a mixture of private and government clients. These projects include the Chadstone Shopping Centre Redevelopment, Thomas Embling Forensic Mental Health Expansion project, and Social Housing Demolition Tranche 1.
We’ve also just recently completed Ballarat Base Hospital Redevelopment Stage 2, which was exciting because we exceeded all our social procurement targets.
We are a managing contractor on all those projects, but we don't self-perform. We'll tender the packages of works out to different subcontractors. Some of those packages are worth millions of dollars, others are worth thousands of dollars, and everywhere in between.
As a result, our subcontractors have varying levels of maturity in their understanding of social procurement. For us, it's about explaining to them the targets of each project. Some of the things we suggest are to help them meet these targets, and we develop a thorough understanding of their work and what they're already doing.
It's interesting, even when I started in this role a couple of years ago, we would have subcontractors saying, "I have no idea what this is target is, I've never seen it before.” Even after a short period of time [for instance a year or two] we will go to them at the start of a project and say, "this is what our targets are," and they will say, "no problem, we did that on this other job already!”
They can confidently speak about all the initiatives they have worked on as a result. The other benefit of educating subcontractors is that everybody benefits from this. All the subcontractors will be working for major builders in this space; that's just how it is.
A rising tide lifts all boats, if they're doing well on our project, they're going to better understand social procurement when working with others. They're going to perform well for the next builder and create that broader ripple effect for everybody.
How have you seen the social procurement landscape evolve in Australia over the last couple of years?
It's evolved enormously in the last few years, particularly in Victoria. I think Victoria has made it quite clear they want to be the leader in this space; their policies are quite extensive and touch every facet of social impact.
I think the catalyst for that has been the introduction of the Social Procurement Framework in Victoria in 2018. There's nothing else like this framework in the other states right now, and it seems that they are playing catch up with Victoria.
The net result of social procurement has been this huge influx of social impact businesses. What we're seeing in construction is there's effectively a social impact provider for pretty much anything in the construction supply chain now.
If there's one thing construction is good at, it's solving problems. If you give builders a problem to solve, they'll come up with a clever solution. There's just that many different social impact businesses now, and sometimes we might involve them in a small way (like purchasing office consumables). In other cases, we might involve them in a large way, by letting a package to them to perform works like landscaping.
There's also everything in between, so it’s been interesting to see that industry development. Subcontractors are becoming savvy with how they engage with social impact suppliers, so we're seeing them more regularly partner with a particular social benefit supplier on an ongoing basis. This helps them meet their targets and create employment opportunities or that ripple of social impact.
It's a win for everyone. Speaking more broadly about recent developments in Victoria, an enormous development has been the introduction of the Building Equality Policy. This policy sets quite ambitious targets around female participation in the construction industry.
That's been a bit of a slow burn, because they are quite ambitious targets, but I think everybody knows they're ambitious. It’s also about realising that if we do nothing, everything stays the same. We've got to set targets somewhere.
It's been interesting to see how that has impacted the social benefit market, because we've seen the creation of social enterprises.
Amarapave is a female led social enterprise that focuses on asphalting and creating employment opportunities for females and non-binary people in the construction industry. We're seeing these innovative initiatives come out of these policy developments.
What advice would you give to governments and corporations who are seeking to create impact when it comes to procurement?
The government's made it clear that they want to leverage their buying power to create social impact. In every government tender (and even increasingly in private tenders), we're seeing extensive social procurement targets, which is excellent.
Those targets are creating a ripple effect, and in the government's case, this is with taxpayer dollars. That impact goes well above and beyond the value of the building that's being constructed, which is exciting.
For corporations that want to make more of an impact, I'd encourage them to start small and to think about where they're spending their everyday dollars, because that adds up quickly. A few examples are milk, fruit, or office consumables, things every business buys week in and week out.
Social enterprises like Fruit2Work can provide a whole gamut of services, and they're creating employment opportunities for ex-offenders, which is brilliant! We have Aboriginal businesses like Muru Office Supplies who can provide all your required stationery, and then we have businesses like Ability Works, a disability social enterprise.
Ability Works are creating employment opportunities for people with a disability, and they can do anything from collating mailbox drops to fabricating steel window brackets.
Sometimes we discount the capability of social impact businesses, but we shouldn't. We should come to social enterprises with a problem and say, "this is what I need, what can you do?" Most of the time they can solve that problem for you.
Should businesses stop thinking of procurement only in terms of large contracts and instead start looking for ongoing ways they can support social enterprises?
Absolutely, because if you think about how much money a business would spend on basic things like stationery and milk, it's a lot of money.
On a single transaction it might not be much, but over time it absolutely adds up. Ongoing work provides businesses with the opportunity to grow and scale, so we shouldn't discount the impact those many little transactions can have.
Where do you see social enterprises commonly making mistakes when it comes to engaging with corporations? How can they avoid these pitfalls?
What I see is social entrepreneurs are passionate people who run these social impact businesses, but I think when they're approaching a business the size and scale of John Holland, it can be quite daunting.
Entrepreneurs need to understand the commercial aspects of their business, and they need to have an argument as to why it makes sense to work with them from a financial perspective.
I need to speak to the commercial members of my team, and their drivers are going to be different to mine. You can't just tug on the heartstrings; you also need to have the commercial element of your proposal down pat. Finally, you need to understand which lever to pull with which person.
I encourage social impact businesses to have a think about their value proposition from both angles, and I think the other piece of advice I would give is it's important to understand the certification process for your business type and what that certification means.
For instance, for contracts with our clients, we're mandated to count the spend from certified social impact businesses. For a social enterprise, that certification is Social Traders. If it's a First Nations business, it's Kinaway in Victoria, Supply Nation or both.
We need these certifications from a compliance perspective, and sometimes when I meet new social enterprises and I ask them about their certifications, they'll say, "what's that?" They're so focused on doing the good work that they might not have those pieces of the puzzle yet.
I'd encourage social entrepreneurs to ask questions, because it can be a scary process to navigate. Ask about what certifications you need, why you need them, and if we can offer you help in that process.
I've been through it myself and I've offered advice to a few social impact businesses about what it is and why it's important.
Where do you see opportunities emerging for the social enterprise sector, and what do you believe is needed to mainstream the movement to make it business as usual?
I think in construction, the movement is essentially mainstream now. It's pretty much business as usual, we see people in positions like mine across the John Holland business and indeed in other Tier 1 businesses as well.
Our roles exist to help facilitate social impact on our projects at a broader level within corporates, so I think that’s exciting.
Social procurement is a fantastic platform for people who are passionate about their cause to find their niche and go wild. To me (having a marketing background), I think storytelling is pivotal to the success of any social impact business.
Going back to a commercial team, they will look at data on a page and whether you’re hitting a target. That's one thing from a compliance and commercial perspective, of course we must do that.
The story underneath your work is also pivotal to understand. If you’ve met a target, what did that mean for the people you served? Who have you employed? What opportunities has this project afforded them?
Once you can tease these stories out, people who might be more commercially minded start saying, "I get it, we've made a real difference to Kate who we've offered an employment opportunity. Now her life has been changed as a result."
It's important to tell stories in an impactful way, and there are people who can be cynical about social procurement. If you have a tender for a social impact supplier, it might be more expensive than another organisation for a multitude of reasons like the scale of their business, the types of people they employ, or the training they provide.
If you have someone in a commercial role who is a bit cynical, they'll just look at it on a piece of paper and say, “this business is more expensive than that one, so therefore the answer's no.”
If they understand the why behind your work and the impact it creates, suddenly a couple of percentage points difference doesn't matter, and we can find that extra money to work with you.
Do you have any advice for people looking to enhance their impact storytelling?
I would focus on the genuine connection and difference your work makes. It can be tricky sometimes, particularly when you're dealing with vulnerable cohorts. We see this with the likes of Reboot Australia for example, who's been featured on your podcast before (Episode 503).
Reboot hire people who have been affected by the justice or prison system, and they might not be necessarily happy to share their story for many reasons. There's a lot of shame and stigma attached to their situation and circumstances. If you can find a way to share someone’s story respectfully, in a way that showcases their vulnerability while respecting that person's privacy at the same time, that's still powerful.
It doesn't always need to be a novel; it can just sometimes be a couple of paragraphs. That's often enough to tell that person's story and why your work was so impactful and important.
What inspiring projects or initiatives have you come across creating a positive change?
One is a social enterprise based in Ballarat called the Raven Collective. They're run by a lady named Natalie Illingworth. Raven is amazing, and Natalie is a powerhouse. Raven exists to provide employment opportunities to survivors of domestic violence.
The social enterprise was born out of Nat's experience as a social worker, because she could see that she could only provide certain support to help the women who had experienced domestic violence. When it came to employment, that was where her help ended, so she created Raven.
She makes these gorgeous gift boxes, and I can attest they're beautiful because I've bought several myself. Those gift boxes are packed by the survivors, but not only do they pack the boxes, but she also teaches them about inventory management, online sales and what’s involved in running a business.
She'll take on two survivors per school term and teach them all those skills, and they'll also have specialists come in and talk to them about things like superannuation, writing a CV, and anything else they might be interested in. It's to give them practical employment experiences they can then take and use in their next jobs. They're doing amazing work.
The other enterprise I will shout out is an Indigenous business called Holly & Co. I came to know Holly & Co. through their parent business, which is a subcontractor of ours called Leemark Fire [Protection]. They worked on our Ballarat building project, but some of the directors from Lee Mark came to me 18 months ago saying, "we want to make more of a social impact, can we have a chat to you about it?"
We sat down and they told me this amazing story that they had always been involved in the foster care system via fostering children through Berry Street. One of the directors, Jonathan, had fostered a little girl named Holly (who's now 19) and her sister, Alicia.
Holly has an intellectual disability, and she's a First Nations woman. Jonathan wanted to provide her with financial security and a purpose day to day, so he thought about how he could do that and give back to Berry Street who gave so much to Holly?
From that, Holly & Co. Procurement was born, and they supply fire service consumables to their parent company and to their competitors within the construction industry.
They're looking to broaden that work to construction consumables more generally, and then 50 percent of their profits are donating back to Berry Street and their Goals program to help young people experiencing or at risk of homelessness. It’s a beautiful cause, so genuine and values aligned. Good people doing good things.
To finish off, what books or resources would you recommend to our audience?
I recommend two books which are both amazing. The first was recommended to me by Nat from the Raven Collective. It's a book by a journalist named Jess Hill and it's called See What You Made Me Do. That book is about power abuse, financial coercion, and things like that. It's a heavy topic, however it's super important we understand the drivers behind this behaviour so we can break the cycle.
As a mum of boys, I feel particularly responsible for driving that message home to them. You can sometimes feel helpless when talking about this topic, but the book gives practical suggestions for what we can do now and into the future. It's a harrowing read, but an important one.
The second book I will recommend is called Do Good at Work by Bea Boccalandro. I was lucky enough to hear Bea speak 18 months ago at a forum in Ballarat. The book is all about how you can do good in your day job no matter what you do, and it’s full of practical examples as to how you can do so.
