Anthony And Jobe MacShane On Building Employment Pathways To Change Attitudes And Reduce Recidivism

Anthony MacShane is a father of four from WA’s South West region and the co-founder of the social enterprise, Reboot Australia.

Anthony’s life has provided a diverse background of experiences, working in Retail, Commercial Fishing, Construction, Mining, and now Recruitment. Anthony’s personal journey has also been diverse, working through addiction, drug dealing and bankruptcy. Without the support, Anthony self-admittedly could have remained a poor version of himself, a road that would have likely found him incarcerated. He is now on a journey to use this experience to help those who’ve found themselves in similar situations.

Inspired by the challenge of breaking down the stigma of incarceration, Anthony’s enthusiasm for Reintegration Employment alone is changing the game. A renowned figure in the reintegration conversation, the ripple of Anthony’s passion for second chances, ability to connect with reintegrating individuals and his level of care set him and Reboot apart.

Jobe MacShane is a son, brother, fiancé, dog dad and friend. He is the Co-founder of Reboot Australia having launched the social enterprise with Anthony back in May 2022.

Jobe’s experience is rooted in storytelling and project management, which has been developed from a diverse up bringing. Having lived in isolated country towns to big cities, worked in small irrigation shops, mining logistic operations, to global advertising agencies on some of the biggest brands in the world, Jobe has a unique and mature understanding of the world.

Jobe’s passion for social impact and interest in business strategy and operations drove him to Reboot. Driven to disrupt the cycle of incarceration, a national challenge, Jobe’s day to day is spent building a business that will create impact for decades to come.

Anthony and Jobe discuss why building accessible pathways to sustainable employment is a key pillar for preventing ex-prisoners from reoffending, and why social entrepreneurs need a strong community to lean on for support, advice, and collaboration.

Highlights from the interview (listen to the podcast for full details)

[Tom Allen] - To start off, can you both please share a bit about your backgrounds and what led to your passion for social enterprise?

[Anthony MacShane] - I spilled out of school at 17/18 years old, and I've always done hands on jobs in construction and retail. I pursued my passion of getting into the fishing industry, and I loved it. I did that for 10 years, and at the time, I thought that's what I was born to do.

I skippered boats, did deep sea wet lining, crabbing and all sorts of other stuff, and from there I became involved in Western Australia's (WA) booming mining and resource industry. I started working underground and then worked my way up into project management.

I learned a lot about contracts, equipment, leading big teams and then I began to understand the challenges of working that way. I broke away from that industry and then started an employment company. I enjoyed working with people, and I'm a bit of an empath.

We wanted to do something where I was not just employing people for employment’s sake, and I had the opportunity to go into a WA prison and learn more about one of their training programs.

I'd been an average version of myself along my journey; it was all ‘work hard, play hard’ for me. I went in and started this job and created an opportunity to share everything I knew about employment and getting a job. It blossomed from there.

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We started to employ people out of incarceration, and I could understand where the individuals were coming from and how they ended up in that space. I wanted to help as I knew a lot about industry. We kept using labour hire as a vehicle to find people employment, to help them reintegrate and start learning everything about reintegration, corrections, and support services.

That went on unfunded for over four and a half years, and I didn't really know anything about social enterprise. Only two and a half years ago did I start learning about social procurement and all these types of things.

This work was born from getting the job done and giving people opportunities, and that led to founding Reboot Australia and shaped what we do now. We've obviously created a lot of impact, but we're on a pathway to create a lot more.

[Jobe MacShane] - Simultaneous to this, I graduated high school down in the sunny Busselton, WA. After, I ventured up to the big city to play a little bit of football, but also to study advertising and marketing. I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder where I wanted to use the degree I'd graduated from, which was in advertising marketing and public relations.

I managed to in that time move over to Victoria, and I went about networking as best as I could. I was lucky enough to land an entry level role at Saatchi & Saatchi, which are quite a solid name in advertising. I was now this football loving country boy living in the big city, working at one of the largest advertising brands in the world. I found myself out of my depth initially, but that allowed for a lot of growth.

It was an exciting time, and I worked there for two and a half years with L'Oreal, a massive global account built around skincare, sunscreen and hair dyes. It was very foreign for me at the time, I guess during my childhood I rarely even moisturised. I moisturise now that's for sure! I was lucky enough to work on a lot of other pro bono and philanthropic projects as well, which really got my creative juices flowing.

Generally, however, I felt disconnected from what I was doing, and it got to the point where I had to quit without a plan or an idea of what I wanted to do next. I had a few things I was looking at, but dad [Anthony] asked me to come and help at MACFORCE, which is the labour hire company we have in WA.

From that, we developed the Reboot business plan and proposal for a large miner. They didn't take up the plan, but we sat there with it realising we had a way step by step process on how to stop the growth of Indigenous incarceration within Australia.

We decided if they were not going to take it, we would just do it ourselves, and obviously it was built on the amazing work dad and the team had done over the last four years. We launched Reboot in 2022, and it's been a journey ever since.

We’re driven to create pathways for people who might not know they have them. That's what gets me up every day, doing what we're doing with a smile on my face.

As the founders of Reboot Australia, can you share how you are tackling issues around incarceration and recidivism?

[Jobe MacShane] - What we're trying to focus on is disrupting the cycle of incarceration. The national recidivism rate for people reoffending is 42%. That means every four people that come out of prison find themselves back there within the first two years. We want to buck that trend, and what we've found is employment is a key pillar within that reintegration journey.

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All pillars are important, and it requires a holistic view, but we've found the vehicle of employment provides a lot of purpose for previously incarcerated individuals, by helping them to build social and human capital. This requires trust from others that they'll do what they say.

Our model is basically just leveraging employment, so we’re working directly with prisons across Australia, particularly in WA and Victoria. We work with them on the inside guiding them through all stages of that reintegration journey. We have a reintegration checklist to help guide and link them up with employers as close to release as possible.

It takes a community to help someone reintegrate, but we don't have enough resources to reinvent the wheel, so what we do is leverage the system to make it as easy as possible for the person the system's there for, the inmates, to navigate that.

We see ourselves as the glue between all the support services out there, and it's about guiding them through that that process into attaining employment and then mentoring them throughout. A lot of individuals don't have that support network or good role models, so ultimately, we're someone in their corner for when times get tough on their journey.

The other thing I'll quickly mention is the stigma. There's a big stigma first off within the incarcerated individuals’ brains about what they can do post release with a criminal record. We help break down a lot of those barriers and mitigate those challenges.

The other stigma is in society, and we are barking at industries about the positive outcomes we've had from supporting someone who is reintegrating and what a National Police Check looks like. Stigma is another part of what we're trying to break down, and we're becoming a voice.

As AMP Foundation Tomorrow Makers, you’re both currently receiving support to develop and grow Reboot Australia. What have been your reflections and learnings so far?

[Anthony MacShane] - I've been doing this, meeting politicians knowing this is going to create an impact. You almost go insane thinking about whether anyone is going to catch on to your work, and this helps you become driven.

It helps you be resilient, and with that comes working yourself hard. We’re also trying to create positive working habits to avoid burnout, particularly where we are on our journey. We're on the cusp of delivering what we've set out to deliver.

Running a business can be a lonely journey, particularly when you're trying to change attitudes and do something different. I've loved being able to connect with different entrepreneurs who share so many similarities with us, so we can bash our way through many of our similar problems and connect.

[Jobe MacShane] – I completely echo what Anthony said. I think the community the AMP Foundation creates is very powerful and helps a lot with the journey we're all on. Although we are from different businesses, we’re on similar journeys. I would say coming from a project management background means I’m able to step back, create those next steps, identify opportunities and threats, and build a framework or step by step process on how we can get from where we are to where we want to be.

That background has been helpful, but a lot of the time that work is just words on a piece of paper. What I’ve loved to have been just conversations and the level of accountability the Tomorrow Makers program inspires. I love a to do list, so I enjoy us all chatting every month to see how far we’re all progressing.

What are your observations of the business for good landscape and where are there opportunities to grow this movement?

[Anthony MacShane] - It's interesting the difference between the two states we work in, and ironically, they both started their social procurement journey around the same time. However, Victoria put a lot of energy and emphasis into their structure. WA is always a bit late on the same scene, must be the time difference!

Two and a half years ago, we didn't know what social procurement even was, but now we've dived in deep. We're registered with Social Traders and are part of that network. We're part of WASEC over here in WA, but it's just starkly different. Both however do have amazing opportunities. Victoria has obviousl mandated KPIs on some of the larger impact projects.

It's a mature space, and a lot of the big companies have social procurement managers working in diversity and inclusion so the conversations easier. In WA, when we first started, it wasn't even a conversation, and there's been some great pioneers over here from WASEC, Dismantle and a couple of other companies have who paved the way.

The conversations were getting better, but I remembered being on planes where I've met people from Victoria who talked about how it was such as easy conversation. I would fly back to WA thinking, “why is it so hard?”

It's great to now be a leader in the WA space and a bit of an industry voice as the space starts looking towards social procurement and the impact it can have. We’re starting to ESG targets while realising business for good business doesn't have to just be about building, mining and manufacturing things.

For the listeners who want to become social entrepreneurs and are beginning their journey, what advice or key learnings would you share with them?

[Jobe MacShane] - The thing Anthony did so well in those first initial years of building Reboot’s framework was just getting out and doing it. He had an idea, and he wanted to just provide information and close the gap between incarceration and industry, so he just went out and did it.

Ultimately that generated more data and allowed us to get clear on what the process and version of helping people reintegrate. My first piece of advice would be to just do it and then immerse yourself in the problem. Obviously, you'll be getting a lot of information back from just doing it, but then look at different ways things are being run in different countries.

We've researched in depth, reached out and connected with people in the UK. We've read a lot of reports in terms of things that have been happening in the reintegration space in America as well, and ultimately, it’s about becoming an expert in whatever you're going to be doing. Give yourself the space and time to do it as well, it's not going to happen overnight, and so you need that resilience.

One of the hardest things as business owners is we never know where we are in the journey of our business life cycle. Often, you're two feet from gold, so just keep your head down and believe in what you're doing. Keep working hard, pivot where you need to, and take advice, but ultimately if you're passionate about something, trust your heart.

[Anthony MacShane] - If I could just add to that is there's a lot of support out there for the social entrepreneurs who are looking to make impact and have got something they want to bring to the table.

There's Impact Boom, Social Traders, and other people who play in your space. There's support around to allow you to elevate yourself a bit quicker and not walk on that lonely, desolate road.

To finish off, what books or resources would you recommend to our listeners?

[Anthony MacShane] - I love Good to Great by Jim Collins, it's a good business book. It's modelled on success stories over time. The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek is also good, and I also love Living Untethered by Michael Singer.

It gives you real techniques and tools to free yourself and live as it suggests, untethered, allowing you to have an enjoyable time walking through this life.

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[Jobe MacShane] - I'm currently reading Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. I would encourage everyone to read it. It's about negotiation, and it feels like it should be illegal. It is fantastic for being able to influence people, and I've already started implementing it within our daily work, whether it's with influencing old clients, taking to people on or just engaging new clients.

Ultimately, it's about rapport building, being able to hold conversations and sit with people in their moments, which we do a lot of. With our mentoring, that shows up every day. A more business-related book is The Road Less Stupid by Keith Cunningham. He has a lot of great principles and techniques for when it comes to running businesses, so definitely give both of those a read.